Am I wrong to think that many of the problems within the federal government come from a Congress that has abdicated its responsibility because they are too busy trying to protect their jobs? It is in Congress that the Constitution offers a check on a badly behaving SCOTUS. Polarization means the parties won't play nice, leading to the latest Congress's "do nothing" record and, in this case, resulting in an unwillingness to hold unethical justices accountable. Impeachment is the check in our balanced three-part government, but when the body with the power to check refuses to, unethical behavior is allowed to continue. (When impeachment becomes a partisan revenge tool against the executive branch, that too is a problem.)
Another source of these problems appears to be a lack of character among the justices who just don't care that their behavior is eroding the public's trust in SCOTUS. Another instance of putting self over country. It's frustrating, and it's dangerous.
Thanks for this topic today. As a recently retired Federal Employee of 34 years, you state my concerns and frustrations perfectly. We were once gifted three pies at the office I worked in for providing outstanding customer service to our community, I felt the need to check to see if we could accept them because of the limitations set forth. And through many training sessions in ethics, we were constantly reminded that it is also the *appearance* of our actions that had to remain above board. It is incredibly frustrating to see the lack of ethical behavior from SCOTUS when they should be setting the bar for all Federal employees and citizens.
Imagine being like, “I need to check to make sure this pie doesn’t violate the rules,” and then other people at the top being like, “this yacht trip is just fine.” It chaps my hide!
Seems to me if person can’t understand a basic filing rule, perhaps they aren’t competent to make rulings that affect millions of citizens. Havent heard” Chaps my hide” in ages! Mine too. 😅
Yes! I'm a current fed and these rules are drilled into us (annual ethics trainings anyone?). We are constantly reminded that the appearance of an ethics violation is just as bad as an ethics violation. It's frustrating that the Supreme Court is not subject to the same rules. If anything they should be held to a higher standard.
I have always held the belief that our Supreme Court justices should exhibit the strongest ethics. It’s disappointing to see Judges Alito and Thomas (and their wives) shining a light on their integrity/ethics or lack there of.
It is my understanding that the person gifting Thomas with all of these trips, gifts, etc also has/had business in front of the court. SCOTUS hands down decisions that affect millions of people. How are we supposed to simply “urge” the Supreme Court to follow the rules if it appears billionaires can buy decisions? It makes me wonder if the Citizens v United ruling was in part because certain justices knew they were receiving extravagant gifts and would later want to defend such as “free speech.”
I have worked in healthcare for 12 years and we also have incredibly stringent rules that we have to follow about what we can and cannot accept from patients, representatives, etc. It’s very frustrating to feel like I have no voice in trying to show this frustration and trying to enact change in how the Supreme Court is operating. Whether Republican or Democrat, if you are a Justice you are supposed to be guided by your sense of morals and not the smell of money and vacations. These decisions affect millions of people and set the tone for additional decisions in the future. I think a bipartisan oversight committee is a great idea to monitor their gifts. Set term limits for the committee and have them be elected officials, so if we don’t think they are doing a good enough job, we have a voice in replacing them.
Amen!! We could only accept food items if they were for the whole team. And any money or gift cards could be donated to the employee Christmas gift fund but not to a team or individual. Frankly a thank you card meant the world to us, more than anything we aides/nurses could receive.
So the people who cleaned up feces in the Capital can't accept gifts cards to take their families out to a nice meal, but Justices Thomas and Alito get to bless the rains down in Africa? As Liz Lemon might say, that's an imbalance of power and ethics out the yang. I don't have anything to say that will add to this discussion that hasn't been said. I'm very angry.
That's exactly it, Lisa. People who cleaned up the Capitol after it was attacked? No Subway sandwich gift card for a free lunch. SCOTUS? Safaris are fine.
Loved the article. Let's see... a teacher can be fired for taking a $21 gift, but a SC justice can take $4 million in gifts (aka bribes) and just say, "Oh, my bad," and continue on like nothing ever happened. Another justice can say, "My wife has a right to fly whatever flag she wants on our property because she's a citizen" is also wrong. If all appearances of impropriety should be taken, then that should include your household, and too bad for your wife (no one would've known it was his wife btw -- if it even was -- if not for the big bruhaha over it. It made him look like he believes the election was stolen. Sending a message is more like it). YOU have a duty, in my opinion, to uphold the idea that you are non-partisan (though we know that is not true as every news outlet points out that so-and-so is a conservative or liberal judge). So, I ask: What would ever induce them to follow the rules? They are untouchable and never face consequences. Any effort to form a committee or department will never pass as we've already seen. Republicans don't want it as the majority of justices will likely rule in their favor on any issue.
The whole "My wife is a citizen..." arguments irritates me to no end. She knows better, and so does he. When I attend work events with my husband, I know to behave in a manner that won't make his boss or employees raise any eyebrows. I don't go around trash-talking his employer, even if inside our home we might discuss things we wish were a little different at work. He's now self-employed, but he previously worked in the oil industry. Regardless of my personal feelings, you wouldn't have caught me out protesting an oil pipeline (or whatever) while the industry put food on our table. And he reciprocates regarding my employment. We know that our behavior reflects on the other's employment, so we behave appropriately, even though we're "citizens."
Precisely. I agree. She absolutely knows better. But let's say for sh*ts and giggles she didn't. He should've told her that as a sitting justice in this household, we cannot be seen as having an opinion about this issue (though I suspect he feels exactly the same thus it staying up). Since I am in this role and live in this house with you, we must remain neutral in the public's eye.
But then we've got Clarence Thomas over here taking millions from someone who has cases before him. And let's not forget his wife, Ginni Thomas, who advocated for the turnover of the 2020 election. She was very involved in that whole thing. And still Thomas sits on the highest court in the land without any fallout. He won't recuse himself from anything either which should be mandatory.
"Now I wonder what we don't know yet" Is the most frightening part of this whole mess. What are the still keeping quiet? We all have to keep putting the work in over the next 139 days to ensure that on January 20th, democracy and the future of our country is safe.
As a former elementary teacher, I taught my students they were a representative of their families and their behavior was a reflection of that. Parents seemed to appreciate the idea. It created an atmosphere of “we’re all in this together”.
Martha Ann Alito missed that message! I cringe every time I say her name - it’s my name also! 😬
It kind of reminds me of the rules for pilots or flight attendants and their families to fly standby. The whole family is supposed to dress in a professional way bc at the end of the day they represent the airline. They could be told they weren’t allowed to fly standby if they didn’t uphold the rules set forth by the airline for standby traveling.
I’m very grateful to you for continuing to shine a light on this important matter. And I am very intrigued by the proposal to have a non-partisan entity oversee and report on justices’ behaviors, transactions and gifts received.
But I’m wondering if this is the lowest level of credibility the court has experienced. Did they experience credibility issues when they ruled in favor of a lot of very unpopular decisions like Loving, and Brown v. Board of Education? I would imagine that there was a lot of backlash. Were their ethics called into question at times like that in the past? Is this the only time that we know of when members of SCOTUS accepted unethical amounts of gifts in the past?
Trying to police the court is a tricky proposition especially because of how politicized it is and how congress is so partisan. This is the anniversary of the Watergate break in. Back then even Republicans in congress could be counted on to have limits to what they would tolerate. Imagine trying to create a rule that if any justice accepts any gift it means automatic impeachment and have congress actually carry it out.
There is a cold war for the values of our country being waged right now and if you ask most people what those values are they would be at lose to articulate them in any specific or coherent way other than to parrot some vague talking point they heard on cable news.
My Illinois senators have really tried their best lately. Durbin with this ethics legislation and Duckworth with her IVF bill. Can’t ANYTHING of common sense get done with a bipartisan effort?! Illinois certainly isn’t a perfect state, but I see my representatives trying. I’m both grateful and frustrated.
Thanks,Sharon, for your clear presentation of this topic. I worked in a clinical psychology office and I once a $10 Starbucks gift card to the office staff to thank them for a first time referral. The office kept the gift card and reported this $10 thank you card to the state office of professional regulation as a violation of the ethics code. The complaint was dismissed as the value of the item was nominal and because it was not sent to the doctor but to the receptionist/staff but we had to stop acknowledging their kind referral. We only sent it for a first time referral, not every time we were sent a patient. So this todo was over $10 coffee , yet the Supreme Court has no accountability. Maybe that was okay when previous justices had ethics, but certainly not with Alito and Thomas and other grifters that are now seated. I like the oversight that was suggested and hope that some form of this accountability will eventually be put in place.
So important to talk about this and why it’s important - thank you! While people say this is a partisan thing, wanting a mechanism for accountability doesn’t have a side. We never know when the tides turn, so having a general accountability mechanism that applies to all of the justices just makes sense.
Exactly! It’s the same thing - the Gold Bar Bob issue - I don’t care that you are democrat - what you are accused of doing is wrong and I want you to face the consequences of your actions. That is what we want for the SC - if no one is above the law that means the President and the Supreme Court too!
That we have to make an ethics standard for the highest court in the land. And that we need a constitutional amendment to actually say a convicted felon with a laundry list of legal issues should not run for president. THAT WE HAVE TO.
This type of thought leads my thoughts in the directions of “why did they become this way??” I bet if by some
Chance any of us on this thread were qualified and selected to be a scj….. we would not behave like this! Were these people always like that? Or grew to be like that bc of the position?
I keep thinking we just need regular people in the courts and congress etc😆
Something that’s been on my mind lately that I’d love your take on is the influence of Leonard Leo and Opus Dei on our SCOTUS and government over the last few decades. The behavior of justices who just can’t help but accept millions in gifts reminds me of Robert Hanssen, who, when approached to turn spy for Russia, famously requested in payment “diamonds as security to my children.”
Am I wrong to think that many of the problems within the federal government come from a Congress that has abdicated its responsibility because they are too busy trying to protect their jobs? It is in Congress that the Constitution offers a check on a badly behaving SCOTUS. Polarization means the parties won't play nice, leading to the latest Congress's "do nothing" record and, in this case, resulting in an unwillingness to hold unethical justices accountable. Impeachment is the check in our balanced three-part government, but when the body with the power to check refuses to, unethical behavior is allowed to continue. (When impeachment becomes a partisan revenge tool against the executive branch, that too is a problem.)
Another source of these problems appears to be a lack of character among the justices who just don't care that their behavior is eroding the public's trust in SCOTUS. Another instance of putting self over country. It's frustrating, and it's dangerous.
I completely agree. It’s exhausting and it feels like there’s no way out of this vicious cycle.
You’ve nailed it!! One hundred percent agree with this
This!
Thanks for this topic today. As a recently retired Federal Employee of 34 years, you state my concerns and frustrations perfectly. We were once gifted three pies at the office I worked in for providing outstanding customer service to our community, I felt the need to check to see if we could accept them because of the limitations set forth. And through many training sessions in ethics, we were constantly reminded that it is also the *appearance* of our actions that had to remain above board. It is incredibly frustrating to see the lack of ethical behavior from SCOTUS when they should be setting the bar for all Federal employees and citizens.
Imagine being like, “I need to check to make sure this pie doesn’t violate the rules,” and then other people at the top being like, “this yacht trip is just fine.” It chaps my hide!
Seems to me if person can’t understand a basic filing rule, perhaps they aren’t competent to make rulings that affect millions of citizens. Havent heard” Chaps my hide” in ages! Mine too. 😅
Exactly!!
Yes! I'm a current fed and these rules are drilled into us (annual ethics trainings anyone?). We are constantly reminded that the appearance of an ethics violation is just as bad as an ethics violation. It's frustrating that the Supreme Court is not subject to the same rules. If anything they should be held to a higher standard.
Right?! So frustrating
I have always held the belief that our Supreme Court justices should exhibit the strongest ethics. It’s disappointing to see Judges Alito and Thomas (and their wives) shining a light on their integrity/ethics or lack there of.
The STRONGEST. They should avoid even the APPEARANCE of impropriety.
Yes, however we’ve appointed justices who had known appearance of impropriety before their confirmations. Politics has poisoned the well in this case.
It is my understanding that the person gifting Thomas with all of these trips, gifts, etc also has/had business in front of the court. SCOTUS hands down decisions that affect millions of people. How are we supposed to simply “urge” the Supreme Court to follow the rules if it appears billionaires can buy decisions? It makes me wonder if the Citizens v United ruling was in part because certain justices knew they were receiving extravagant gifts and would later want to defend such as “free speech.”
I have worked in healthcare for 12 years and we also have incredibly stringent rules that we have to follow about what we can and cannot accept from patients, representatives, etc. It’s very frustrating to feel like I have no voice in trying to show this frustration and trying to enact change in how the Supreme Court is operating. Whether Republican or Democrat, if you are a Justice you are supposed to be guided by your sense of morals and not the smell of money and vacations. These decisions affect millions of people and set the tone for additional decisions in the future. I think a bipartisan oversight committee is a great idea to monitor their gifts. Set term limits for the committee and have them be elected officials, so if we don’t think they are doing a good enough job, we have a voice in replacing them.
Exactly. This is not partisan, it’s principle: the Court is in a position of public trust. And they need to act like it.
Amen!! We could only accept food items if they were for the whole team. And any money or gift cards could be donated to the employee Christmas gift fund but not to a team or individual. Frankly a thank you card meant the world to us, more than anything we aides/nurses could receive.
So the people who cleaned up feces in the Capital can't accept gifts cards to take their families out to a nice meal, but Justices Thomas and Alito get to bless the rains down in Africa? As Liz Lemon might say, that's an imbalance of power and ethics out the yang. I don't have anything to say that will add to this discussion that hasn't been said. I'm very angry.
That's exactly it, Lisa. People who cleaned up the Capitol after it was attacked? No Subway sandwich gift card for a free lunch. SCOTUS? Safaris are fine.
Loved the article. Let's see... a teacher can be fired for taking a $21 gift, but a SC justice can take $4 million in gifts (aka bribes) and just say, "Oh, my bad," and continue on like nothing ever happened. Another justice can say, "My wife has a right to fly whatever flag she wants on our property because she's a citizen" is also wrong. If all appearances of impropriety should be taken, then that should include your household, and too bad for your wife (no one would've known it was his wife btw -- if it even was -- if not for the big bruhaha over it. It made him look like he believes the election was stolen. Sending a message is more like it). YOU have a duty, in my opinion, to uphold the idea that you are non-partisan (though we know that is not true as every news outlet points out that so-and-so is a conservative or liberal judge). So, I ask: What would ever induce them to follow the rules? They are untouchable and never face consequences. Any effort to form a committee or department will never pass as we've already seen. Republicans don't want it as the majority of justices will likely rule in their favor on any issue.
The whole "My wife is a citizen..." arguments irritates me to no end. She knows better, and so does he. When I attend work events with my husband, I know to behave in a manner that won't make his boss or employees raise any eyebrows. I don't go around trash-talking his employer, even if inside our home we might discuss things we wish were a little different at work. He's now self-employed, but he previously worked in the oil industry. Regardless of my personal feelings, you wouldn't have caught me out protesting an oil pipeline (or whatever) while the industry put food on our table. And he reciprocates regarding my employment. We know that our behavior reflects on the other's employment, so we behave appropriately, even though we're "citizens."
Precisely. I agree. She absolutely knows better. But let's say for sh*ts and giggles she didn't. He should've told her that as a sitting justice in this household, we cannot be seen as having an opinion about this issue (though I suspect he feels exactly the same thus it staying up). Since I am in this role and live in this house with you, we must remain neutral in the public's eye.
But then we've got Clarence Thomas over here taking millions from someone who has cases before him. And let's not forget his wife, Ginni Thomas, who advocated for the turnover of the 2020 election. She was very involved in that whole thing. And still Thomas sits on the highest court in the land without any fallout. He won't recuse himself from anything either which should be mandatory.
Now I wonder what we don't know yet. Frightening.
Yep. Exactly all of this.
"Now I wonder what we don't know yet" Is the most frightening part of this whole mess. What are the still keeping quiet? We all have to keep putting the work in over the next 139 days to ensure that on January 20th, democracy and the future of our country is safe.
Totally agree with you!
As a former elementary teacher, I taught my students they were a representative of their families and their behavior was a reflection of that. Parents seemed to appreciate the idea. It created an atmosphere of “we’re all in this together”.
Martha Ann Alito missed that message! I cringe every time I say her name - it’s my name also! 😬
But you're not THAT Martha Ann!
That was a great idea!
It kind of reminds me of the rules for pilots or flight attendants and their families to fly standby. The whole family is supposed to dress in a professional way bc at the end of the day they represent the airline. They could be told they weren’t allowed to fly standby if they didn’t uphold the rules set forth by the airline for standby traveling.
I’m very grateful to you for continuing to shine a light on this important matter. And I am very intrigued by the proposal to have a non-partisan entity oversee and report on justices’ behaviors, transactions and gifts received.
But I’m wondering if this is the lowest level of credibility the court has experienced. Did they experience credibility issues when they ruled in favor of a lot of very unpopular decisions like Loving, and Brown v. Board of Education? I would imagine that there was a lot of backlash. Were their ethics called into question at times like that in the past? Is this the only time that we know of when members of SCOTUS accepted unethical amounts of gifts in the past?
This is a really good question that I'd love to know the answer to, too.
Trying to police the court is a tricky proposition especially because of how politicized it is and how congress is so partisan. This is the anniversary of the Watergate break in. Back then even Republicans in congress could be counted on to have limits to what they would tolerate. Imagine trying to create a rule that if any justice accepts any gift it means automatic impeachment and have congress actually carry it out.
There is a cold war for the values of our country being waged right now and if you ask most people what those values are they would be at lose to articulate them in any specific or coherent way other than to parrot some vague talking point they heard on cable news.
There is absolutely no reason they shouldn’t be under the same rules as other federal employees and judges.
I think they are but they just don't tell unless they get caught.
My Illinois senators have really tried their best lately. Durbin with this ethics legislation and Duckworth with her IVF bill. Can’t ANYTHING of common sense get done with a bipartisan effort?! Illinois certainly isn’t a perfect state, but I see my representatives trying. I’m both grateful and frustrated.
Thanks,Sharon, for your clear presentation of this topic. I worked in a clinical psychology office and I once a $10 Starbucks gift card to the office staff to thank them for a first time referral. The office kept the gift card and reported this $10 thank you card to the state office of professional regulation as a violation of the ethics code. The complaint was dismissed as the value of the item was nominal and because it was not sent to the doctor but to the receptionist/staff but we had to stop acknowledging their kind referral. We only sent it for a first time referral, not every time we were sent a patient. So this todo was over $10 coffee , yet the Supreme Court has no accountability. Maybe that was okay when previous justices had ethics, but certainly not with Alito and Thomas and other grifters that are now seated. I like the oversight that was suggested and hope that some form of this accountability will eventually be put in place.
So important to talk about this and why it’s important - thank you! While people say this is a partisan thing, wanting a mechanism for accountability doesn’t have a side. We never know when the tides turn, so having a general accountability mechanism that applies to all of the justices just makes sense.
Exactly! It’s the same thing - the Gold Bar Bob issue - I don’t care that you are democrat - what you are accused of doing is wrong and I want you to face the consequences of your actions. That is what we want for the SC - if no one is above the law that means the President and the Supreme Court too!
That we have to make an ethics standard for the highest court in the land. And that we need a constitutional amendment to actually say a convicted felon with a laundry list of legal issues should not run for president. THAT WE HAVE TO.
Preach it! I’m with you!
This type of thought leads my thoughts in the directions of “why did they become this way??” I bet if by some
Chance any of us on this thread were qualified and selected to be a scj….. we would not behave like this! Were these people always like that? Or grew to be like that bc of the position?
I keep thinking we just need regular people in the courts and congress etc😆
Something that’s been on my mind lately that I’d love your take on is the influence of Leonard Leo and Opus Dei on our SCOTUS and government over the last few decades. The behavior of justices who just can’t help but accept millions in gifts reminds me of Robert Hanssen, who, when approached to turn spy for Russia, famously requested in payment “diamonds as security to my children.”
Do the donors of these “gifts” have to disclose the gifts on their taxes? I thought there is a limit on tax free gifts.
Great point. To my knowledge there are limits to free gifts from a taxation standpoint!