I can only speak for myself and my experiences. I'm a white man. And I don't know why, but I've felt angry for a good bit of my life. It's not because I lack resources or opportunities. Quite the opposite - I feel like I am too quickly trusted by people in authority. And yet, I often feel lost and weak and on the outside. Part of it, I t…
I can only speak for myself and my experiences. I'm a white man. And I don't know why, but I've felt angry for a good bit of my life. It's not because I lack resources or opportunities. Quite the opposite - I feel like I am too quickly trusted by people in authority. And yet, I often feel lost and weak and on the outside. Part of it, I think, comes from not feeling like I have an identity. I'm a white dude in America, but what does that mean? I've talked with other white dudes about what it would be like to be a part of a deeper, older tradition, and there's something about that belonging that feels deeply attractive. Without the grit of an ethnic identity (outside of my pale skin), I have nothing to grab onto. I want my life to matter. I think a lot of white men want their lives to matter, but in our impotence and anger we think that violence is the only way to make our mark on the world. It's what our forefathers did. Perhaps we are paying for their sins.
That's a really interesting perspective that makes sense to me, a white woman married to a white man who raised two white sons (and a daughter). While we've never had this specific conversation, I see a bit of this in my husband (now that you've pointed it out). To be clear, in 37 years of knowing him, I've NEVER seen him resort to violence in any way.
But I have noted that:
1. While he has lifelong friends he talks to regularly (a quality I deeply admire), they are now spread around the country, and he doesn't have a "group" of any kind. We women have book clubs and Bunco (here's a secret: that's an excuse to hang out, talk a lot, and drink wine 😅) and Mom's clubs, etc, etc. Generally speaking, men don't form these types of groups. There are some, but not in the way women build community. I've often wondered why that is.
2. While my husband is in no way violent, his default negative emotion is anger. He struggles to express sadness, loneliness, frustration, etc. All of those come out as just "I'm mad." I see the same in his peers.
I will add, though, that I'm incredibly proud that my sons, currently 20 and 23, do not struggle as much to express emotion. My 23-year-old is quite introverted, so he's less likely to share his emotions in general, but he is able to identify them appropriately when he does. And my 20-year-old has no problem doing so. Both of them willingly and without prompting tell me "I love you" and hug me in front of their friends (even through the junior high and high school years when I expected them to not want that and gave them space to not have to). One day last summer I walked into my 20 y/o's room for something, and he was online gaming. I told what I needed to, and as I was walking out, he said, "Thanks, Mom. Love you!" Apparently, one of his gaming buddies teased him about that (he was wearing headphones, so I couldn't hear what was said), and my son said, "What? You don't tell your Mom you love her? Thats so sad, dude." 🥹 Apparently, my husband and I, even with his struggle to identify his own emotions, managed to raise sons who can identify theirs. So there is hope for change if we work at it.
I think this is also where the importance of letting boys and men have female friends. I have close male friends who are super compassionate and definitely look at the world differently than the stereotypical man. I don’t have kids yet, but I think of how I want to foster that in my own kids one day.
Yes. I've noticed this in many men I know, and it scares me, compounded by the fact that I have two sons. I think part of it is so much of male identity under the capitalism and patriarchy is tied to earning money. Which is such an unsatisfying endeavor to start with and infuriating to those who can't earn enough. I'm trying to show my sons what they do outside of traditional achievement matters, eg kindness, compassion, creativity etc. It scares me though because it's so insidious.
Makes me think of the phrase “looking for love in all the wrong places”. Our culture tells men that they will have meaning in doing big things. Money, status, fame, physical attractiveness, etc. But those things are obviously fleeting. I think in general, when we are lacking meaning (which can also be perceived as a resource) that is often the sign we need to widen our net. When my dad went thru the divorce he didn’t want and wasn’t prepared for, he found himself in a dark place and he was very angry. So his therapist recommended that he start serving at the local gospel mission. He just did it on the holidays but I think it helped ground him a lot. It gave him purpose on some of the hardest days of the year. If we want our lives to matter, I think the question needs to be, “how can I serve others?”
But again, in our culture, the *real* answer to that question is not brawny, masculine or impressive. It’s reaching down to the lowest of places and offering our hands to help. If more men (white men in particular) approached their search for meaning from this viewpoint, the world would undoubtedly be a better place.
Thx for your vulnerability and honesty. I think men desperately need community, brotherhood, positive ritual, and connection. We are far removed from these aspects of life that our ancestors enjoyed c which came through church or social groups or civic organizations, especially service-oriented ones. We can rebuild these now, locally, with one another. Is there a cause you can assist, a needy population that you can help? Often deep connection and community arises from shared action and goals. You can lead other men to help those less fortunate. Or you can start a small support group to help young fathers. Or or or… Koan Baez said, “The antidote to despair is action.” Take action now. Can you put your energy towards that? Would that answer your longing for a life that mattered? Hoping for that for you, and men like you.
I can only speak for myself and my experiences. I'm a white man. And I don't know why, but I've felt angry for a good bit of my life. It's not because I lack resources or opportunities. Quite the opposite - I feel like I am too quickly trusted by people in authority. And yet, I often feel lost and weak and on the outside. Part of it, I think, comes from not feeling like I have an identity. I'm a white dude in America, but what does that mean? I've talked with other white dudes about what it would be like to be a part of a deeper, older tradition, and there's something about that belonging that feels deeply attractive. Without the grit of an ethnic identity (outside of my pale skin), I have nothing to grab onto. I want my life to matter. I think a lot of white men want their lives to matter, but in our impotence and anger we think that violence is the only way to make our mark on the world. It's what our forefathers did. Perhaps we are paying for their sins.
That's a really interesting perspective that makes sense to me, a white woman married to a white man who raised two white sons (and a daughter). While we've never had this specific conversation, I see a bit of this in my husband (now that you've pointed it out). To be clear, in 37 years of knowing him, I've NEVER seen him resort to violence in any way.
But I have noted that:
1. While he has lifelong friends he talks to regularly (a quality I deeply admire), they are now spread around the country, and he doesn't have a "group" of any kind. We women have book clubs and Bunco (here's a secret: that's an excuse to hang out, talk a lot, and drink wine 😅) and Mom's clubs, etc, etc. Generally speaking, men don't form these types of groups. There are some, but not in the way women build community. I've often wondered why that is.
2. While my husband is in no way violent, his default negative emotion is anger. He struggles to express sadness, loneliness, frustration, etc. All of those come out as just "I'm mad." I see the same in his peers.
I will add, though, that I'm incredibly proud that my sons, currently 20 and 23, do not struggle as much to express emotion. My 23-year-old is quite introverted, so he's less likely to share his emotions in general, but he is able to identify them appropriately when he does. And my 20-year-old has no problem doing so. Both of them willingly and without prompting tell me "I love you" and hug me in front of their friends (even through the junior high and high school years when I expected them to not want that and gave them space to not have to). One day last summer I walked into my 20 y/o's room for something, and he was online gaming. I told what I needed to, and as I was walking out, he said, "Thanks, Mom. Love you!" Apparently, one of his gaming buddies teased him about that (he was wearing headphones, so I couldn't hear what was said), and my son said, "What? You don't tell your Mom you love her? Thats so sad, dude." 🥹 Apparently, my husband and I, even with his struggle to identify his own emotions, managed to raise sons who can identify theirs. So there is hope for change if we work at it.
I think this is also where the importance of letting boys and men have female friends. I have close male friends who are super compassionate and definitely look at the world differently than the stereotypical man. I don’t have kids yet, but I think of how I want to foster that in my own kids one day.
Yes. I've noticed this in many men I know, and it scares me, compounded by the fact that I have two sons. I think part of it is so much of male identity under the capitalism and patriarchy is tied to earning money. Which is such an unsatisfying endeavor to start with and infuriating to those who can't earn enough. I'm trying to show my sons what they do outside of traditional achievement matters, eg kindness, compassion, creativity etc. It scares me though because it's so insidious.
Makes me think of the phrase “looking for love in all the wrong places”. Our culture tells men that they will have meaning in doing big things. Money, status, fame, physical attractiveness, etc. But those things are obviously fleeting. I think in general, when we are lacking meaning (which can also be perceived as a resource) that is often the sign we need to widen our net. When my dad went thru the divorce he didn’t want and wasn’t prepared for, he found himself in a dark place and he was very angry. So his therapist recommended that he start serving at the local gospel mission. He just did it on the holidays but I think it helped ground him a lot. It gave him purpose on some of the hardest days of the year. If we want our lives to matter, I think the question needs to be, “how can I serve others?”
But again, in our culture, the *real* answer to that question is not brawny, masculine or impressive. It’s reaching down to the lowest of places and offering our hands to help. If more men (white men in particular) approached their search for meaning from this viewpoint, the world would undoubtedly be a better place.
Thx for your vulnerability and honesty. I think men desperately need community, brotherhood, positive ritual, and connection. We are far removed from these aspects of life that our ancestors enjoyed c which came through church or social groups or civic organizations, especially service-oriented ones. We can rebuild these now, locally, with one another. Is there a cause you can assist, a needy population that you can help? Often deep connection and community arises from shared action and goals. You can lead other men to help those less fortunate. Or you can start a small support group to help young fathers. Or or or… Koan Baez said, “The antidote to despair is action.” Take action now. Can you put your energy towards that? Would that answer your longing for a life that mattered? Hoping for that for you, and men like you.
Interesting observations!