What a fantastic, fantastic interview. I was raised Evangelical Protestant; my dad was a pastor, and a Reagan-era Republican. I also went to a conservative Reformed Protestant parochial school for most of my education (shout-out to my fellow A Beka Book curriculum folks!). The school, and the church attached to it, were highly Christian Nationalist. They were energized by the Moral Majority - one of my teacher's husbands served a brief stint in prison for repeatedly chaining and padlocking himself to the doors of Planned Parenthood - and the school groomed and guided the male students toward political life. My parents provided the counter-balance to a lot of these beliefs: they viewed them as fringe and short-sighted, and noted that Jesus specifically did not save the world through political power or revolution. Dad would have died before talking politics from the pulpit, but my parents were certainly still conservative and the little bubble of my world was almost entirely Republican.
The cracks began to show as the simmering and hateful reactions to Obama bubbled up to the surface: my Dad refurbished antique guns in his spare time, and enjoyed getting them back to polished and working condition, but he stopped going to the gun range when the tenor turned into fear-mongering about the government and anger toward "the Libs." I had voted for Obama in that election; my parents weren't his biggest supporters, but they also felt like the reactions they were seeing were wholly disproportionate to the reality of the situation. Donald Trump's campaign widened those cracks: my Mom in particular was convinced that there *had* to be something we just weren't seeing, because enthusiastic support was so intense, but there was never an answer that could satisfy their decades-long conservative values. Trump's reaction to losing and the chaos of January 6th just split those cracks wide open.
There is a lot of talk about people like my parents 'fleeing' the Republican party, but I think it's more accurate to say that the Republican party fled away from them. It fled toward nativism and anger, toward "alternative facts" and a strong-man leader, and toward the belief that Big Government power is only bad if they're not the ones wielding it. As Kinzinger says, it's not the conservative party anymore: it's the party running on making radical changes and reshaping the world to fit their worldview. That kind of political project was what kept my parents from voting Democrat in the past and yet has, ironically, been the reason they've voted Democrat since Trump came onto the scene.
Yep. I could nearly have written this. (Down to Abeka 😅.) I began seeing things somewhat more clearly in 2012, though I feel like I saw them as a person without their glasses. I was too afraid to rock the shaky foundation stones so I thought maybe identifying as a libertarian would be the answer. I suppose it did help because it weaned me off of needing the approval of being aligned with one party or the other. But when Trump was nominated in 2016, I made a hard break as I saw people I thought were sincere in their Christian faith not only deny everything they once purported to believe, and also seemingly most of their intellectual faculties and ability to rationally defend their decisions, but also I saw them devolve into fragile schoolyard bullies in the image of Trump.
Even as I relate thoroughly with everything Adam said, I still feel disoriented by the tragic shift that has wreaked havoc on real relationships in every sphere of life.
I agree completely with you! I could have written this as it fits my life (except my dad wasn’t a pastor). Also, I wasn’t the one using the A Beka curriculum. It was my daughter as we put her in Christian school from K5-12. With the advent of Trump and MAGA we have left the Republican party. We voted for Joe Biden and am happily voting for Kamala Harris all because of what you stated and what Adam Kinzinger stated. Democracy is at stake!
Thanks for sharing your background. I am very disheartened this time around. I’m sad for our country and both parties… it’s literally depressing and I’m hoping things will get better and we can find common ground after the election. It’s gotten to the point that I’ve really cut back on news and focus on reading, exercise, family etc.. but that’s really what matters, isn’t it?
What a great interview! I love Adam and his integrity! Thank you for sharing with us, Sharon.
I say this with respect to all: The reality is we only have two parties right now, one of which will win the election. If your choice is between tearing down the principles America was built on or maintaining some semblance of democracy, even if some views don't align with yours, why would you write in someone who will not win? If it's a single issue you just can't bear to vote for, perhaps viewing each party as a whole and what they ultimately wish to accomplish would help? We never get everything we want. Never. But we can get close, and we can hope to live with less anger, vitriol and hate. I'd say most of us are just tired of that. Exhausted. The idea of living through another 4 years of tearing down America, calling it a hellhole, pitting us against one another, villainizing non-whites, women and the government, etc., is a place I'm tired of revisiting. Adam Kinzinger is a good example of how even when you don't always align on every topic, some choices are just better on the whole.
The other part that I try to remind people of is, the President does not get to just change and write new laws! That is the job of our Congress… even if Harris wins, the democrats will likely not have control or the house and senate, but perhaps we can start to move back to bipartisan committees that accomplish goals through true compromise, not just refusing to deal because DJT wants to tank our country for his own ego
These party realignments are objectively fascinating, especially as someone from the South. I appreciate this interview and the courage to put it out there. Sharon-you’re going to get hate and threats for this, which means you’re doing something right.
Great interview with a guy who shows real courage and integrity. I’ve heard people profess their dissatisfaction with both parties and their inability to vote for either candidate. They retreat from the difficult issues of the day to safe spaces of family and personal well-being and ask isn’t that what really matters. My answer is no, it’s not what really matters, not in this election especially. I’m an upper middle class, native-born, post-menopausal white woman. Even if Trump is re-elected and democracy falls in tatters all around us I and my family will probably be fine (physically and financially if not emotionally). But I am not voting for myself. I am voting to prevent the large-scale hunting down and rounding up of immigrants and asylum seekers, the tearing apart of families and using the U.S. military to place millions of people in detention camps and for the rights and freedoms of American women much younger than me, among many other things. I am not sad at all about the Democratic Party and its focus on freedom and moving forward into a better future. The choice this time could not be clearer and I completely agree with Kinzinger that everything else pales in comparison to a failed democracy.
“But I am not voting for myself.” Exactly this. Those of us born with privilege (of race) can choose to sit an election out, regardless of the outcome it is unlikely to bring immediate harm to our door. But democracy, freedom, safety, fairness - that’s very much on the ballot again for many. We may not have ideal options on the ballot, but we can use our vote to stand up for our neighbors: that’s compassion and humanity in action. Let’s build that bigger tent Sharon spoke about here - you may not love all the food being served in the tent, and that’s ok.
💯 every single word of this - it’s like you heard me saying it out loud in my kitchen. You are voting for more than yourself and we have many examples where it was clear looking back which was the right side of history. This one is even easier - look back four years and project forward four years - there is one easy choice to make which allows all other choices and options possible. I for one will choose hope - hope that we keep our democracy and enact many of the ideas Sharon has previously shared as changes we need to make to govern ourselves better. We are living history right now - choose hope!
I have an acute awareness that we are living in the History lessons our grandchildren will study. While fascinating academically, on a personal level, what the MAGA movement has done to the church and Republican Party has probably been the greatest heartbreak of my entire life. I hope to live to see the redemption arch.
My two favorite north stars in one spot! As a religious “conservative,” I agree wholeheartedly with everything Adam said about Donald Trump. President Trump is not truly a person of faith and he doesn’t actually care about the sanctity of life. He is just a conman who has tricked half of the country into believing that he cares.
Also, Sharon, I would hate to be the one starting a conspiracy theory but are you sure there is only one of you and you haven’t been cloned into many Sharons? One doing book tours, one doing podcasts, one writing Substack posts, one sitting down for in-depth interviews with prominent figures of the day, one taking care of the dogs and the home front, etc., etc.? Good thing that childhood paper route in Duluth prepared you for hard work and long hours!
Kate, I have thought the same thing. I don’t know how she fits ALL of it in and gets the sleep she needs. I admire you, Sharon, because I don’t get everything done in a day that I need to do. 😊
Loved the interview!! And I love the concept of building a bigger tent.
I wish democrats talked more about their efforts and successes in reducing abortion rates. From 2009-2021, 70% of the decline in abortion rates were driven by states with the least abortion restrictions. And we know that maternal and infant mortality rates are higher in states with abortion bans. Bans cause harm & result in maternity care deserts (providers are fearful to work in states that send them to jail for practicing medicine). Attacks on reproductive rights also impact those of us who need fertility treatments such as IVF.
Two things can be true at once: you can advocate for reproductive rights AND work to reduce abortion rates. The policies that are effective in reducing abortion rates (access to birth control, affordable healthcare, comprehensive sex ed, paid family leave, etc) are sadly often rejected by the GOP.
Agreed! It’s about bodily autonomy -and- discussing how their policies are successful in reducing abortion rates. If someone genuinely wants to reduce abortion rates, they would vote for the candidates enacting evidence based policies proven to work. One of the things I am learning, though, is that many in the pro-life camp believe this is as a “moral” issue and refuse to see the data because they are absolutely convinced the fetus is a full, legal person (despite the fact that their biblical text says nothing about fetal personhood; nor does Jesus ever say His followers should legalize their version of morality). I say this as a deconstructing Christian who hasn’t abandoned faith but rather a poor theology. I have the utmost respect for potential life in the womb and even risked my own life to carry our son in a high risk pregnancy; I sadly suffered a hemorrhage in the second trimester and am still here because abortions are life saving healthcare. It was my choice to carry, and I would never, ever want to legally force someone to make that decision.
This interview was incredible! I can't wait to read it again. I grew up driving to high school with Rush Limbaugh on the radio, and I attended college at a conservative evangelical university that championed the pro-life movement without apology, flags waving high.
Now in my 30s, my shift to becoming "politically moderate" has been unnerving to many friends and family members. I process politics with compassion and empathy. I can't set those values down. I can't blindly vote on party. I can't stop asking hard questions on BOTH sides of the aisle.
So it's incredibly hard for me to invoke these values into political conversation only to be met with, "Well, you must love abortion!" What?
Sharon and Adam, your deep dives into Christian nationalism have truly been eye-opening for me, and I'm so grateful.
I agreed with a lot of what Adam said and I do agree that Trump has pushed some people out of the church. As someone who grew up in the church, in my high school era spending close to 30 hours a week there, I no longer feel welcomed at church. I've tried to go back several times, but the sermons and the viewpoints are not those which I believe that Jesus would have supported. It's sad to see and it's tough to explain that to people who have shifted with the church. I considered myself a Republican until Trump, but never had thought of the "other side" as "evil". I couldn't, and still can't, stomach voting for Trump, who does not exemplify what the Christian Nationalist party is wanting to believe he stands for.
Amanda, as a Christian, it truly saddens my heart that you no longer feel like you have a place at church. Church should be a place that welcomes all people and a place of refuge. I hope that you are able to find a church that only preaches Jesus as king and the Kingdom of Heaven as the ultimate place to have citizenship.
I still am a believer, but I got tired of hearing underhanded jokes about how a baby shouldn't get "confused later in life because" the little girl was "standing in for a boy" and politics from the pulpit. Also got tired of being told that the Christian woman was quiet and a helper and not someone who makes waves. I'm sure there's a church out there somewhere that I could fit into, but it's harder to do when you live in a deep red area.
I live in a deeply red state and that has become a very real barrier to finding a faith community that doesn’t feel gross because so many of them seem to be infected with the MAGA agenda instead of being transformed by the teachings of Jesus. I have been a Christian my whole life, but walked away from church for long seasons in my adulthood until a few years ago when I found an Episcopal church—it has been a breath of fresh air for my soul. It is similar to an ELCA Lutheran church theologically. Not sure what is available where you live. I hope someday you can have a faith space that is right for you.
I totally get that! If you happen to live in the DFW metroplex area in Texas, I am happy to share several names of churches that 1) don't preach any of those things you listed from the pulpit and 2) don't facilitate those sentiments in general by the congregation. Unfortunately, I don't have experience with churches outside of this area of the country, so if you live somewhere else, the only help I have is support for your feelings, empathy and prayers that you are able to find community soon.
I agree! I have visited other churches, but I have to drive about an hour away to a more "blue" area to find churches that align with my values. It makes it hard to participate and become involved in the church community when I live farther away.
I credit Donald Trump, and the evangelical embrace of him, for my deconstruction era, and a product of that has been my political interest.
I’ve definitely wondered if we’re seeing a party shift that’s going to be more permanent. Being new to liberal side of things, I can’t speak to a more conservative Democrat party, but I’ve definitely seen the shift of the Republican party.
It’s a thought provoking idea that they aren’t conservative because of the radical desire for change, but I also don’t see it as progressive or liberal, because they want something back that we used to have. What is it?
It's certainly not an explicit party platform. But why was Nick Fuentes, white supremacist, invited to dine with Trump at Mar-a-Lago? Why has Laura Loomer, open racist and white supremacist, been advising the Trump campaign and appearing publicly with a candidate for President?
Why would people with those views feel welcome in Trump's Republicanism?
I credit it with my deconstruction too. I tried to ignore it until Covid rolled around and my science nurse brain was like, wait, what? Then I saw all the hypocrisy surrounding the white conservative evangelicals and let’s just say it’s been a journey. I’m still mad and likely voting out of anger for more liberal ideas. But at least it’s not out of ignorance.
That was a great conversation, and it's very encouraging to hear Republicans who don't support Trump explaining exactly what is at stake... and that's everything. Our whole country. I hope people need this message.
Thanks for sharing. I believe the opposite- that so much is at stake if Harris wins. Specifically freedom of speech. I don’t think that Harris will independently risk that, but Walz and other democrats can influence it.
Hillary Clinton’s recent comments about criminal charges for people who spread propaganda and Tim Walz comments on freedom of speech. Very concerning to me.
Disagree with those opinions or not, it's about as misleading to suggest that a Harris/Walz administration would criminalize free speech as it would be to suggest that a Trump/Vance administration would enact The Purge (based on his recent comments).
Thanks for sharing, Emily. I forgot to mention there was also the White House pressuring Meta to censor Covid information. So sorry- don’t trust many democrats will protect freedom of speech.
And Trump threatened to “strongly regulate, or close them down” (‘them’ = social media companies) when he was fact-checked by Twitter on his election lies. I think we can definitely agree that government pressure on free speech - from either direction - is not a good impulse and should always be checked.
Adam Kinzinger's Substack is my other paid subscription on here. He's the type of Republican I grew up with, the kind I can absolutely enjoy a political debate with. If the political world ever gets back to normal, I will probably continue to follow him. And, honestly, I look forward to understanding his political views outside the existential threat of MAGA.
This was a wonderful conversation! I appreciate that Adam didn’t speak about the Catholic Church and if white nationalism has seeped in since he doesn’t have knowledge of it. But as a Catholic, I can share that it has made it in the American Catholic church as well. It’s not everywhere and if you’re lucky, you don’t feel it in your parish, but I have noticed it as an online Catholic. It’s made me unfollow a lot of Catholics on social media for that reason. This interview was quite heartening and I hope more conservatives have this kind of sense in their conscience.
I think it's amazing that Adam Kinzinger cannot only see clearly what is happening to this party, but he is willing to speak out against it. As a lifelong Democrat, I hope that if someone similar to Trump would come along and try to take over the party, I would be able to see through that. It's so frustrating to see so many conservative people support someone who really is the opposite of the things they said they believed in.
I used to call myself a Yella Dog democrat, but now I hope and trust that I can gracefully leave my “party” when it takes a serious wrong turn! I admire kinziger so much!
What a fantastic, fantastic interview. I was raised Evangelical Protestant; my dad was a pastor, and a Reagan-era Republican. I also went to a conservative Reformed Protestant parochial school for most of my education (shout-out to my fellow A Beka Book curriculum folks!). The school, and the church attached to it, were highly Christian Nationalist. They were energized by the Moral Majority - one of my teacher's husbands served a brief stint in prison for repeatedly chaining and padlocking himself to the doors of Planned Parenthood - and the school groomed and guided the male students toward political life. My parents provided the counter-balance to a lot of these beliefs: they viewed them as fringe and short-sighted, and noted that Jesus specifically did not save the world through political power or revolution. Dad would have died before talking politics from the pulpit, but my parents were certainly still conservative and the little bubble of my world was almost entirely Republican.
The cracks began to show as the simmering and hateful reactions to Obama bubbled up to the surface: my Dad refurbished antique guns in his spare time, and enjoyed getting them back to polished and working condition, but he stopped going to the gun range when the tenor turned into fear-mongering about the government and anger toward "the Libs." I had voted for Obama in that election; my parents weren't his biggest supporters, but they also felt like the reactions they were seeing were wholly disproportionate to the reality of the situation. Donald Trump's campaign widened those cracks: my Mom in particular was convinced that there *had* to be something we just weren't seeing, because enthusiastic support was so intense, but there was never an answer that could satisfy their decades-long conservative values. Trump's reaction to losing and the chaos of January 6th just split those cracks wide open.
There is a lot of talk about people like my parents 'fleeing' the Republican party, but I think it's more accurate to say that the Republican party fled away from them. It fled toward nativism and anger, toward "alternative facts" and a strong-man leader, and toward the belief that Big Government power is only bad if they're not the ones wielding it. As Kinzinger says, it's not the conservative party anymore: it's the party running on making radical changes and reshaping the world to fit their worldview. That kind of political project was what kept my parents from voting Democrat in the past and yet has, ironically, been the reason they've voted Democrat since Trump came onto the scene.
Yep. I could nearly have written this. (Down to Abeka 😅.) I began seeing things somewhat more clearly in 2012, though I feel like I saw them as a person without their glasses. I was too afraid to rock the shaky foundation stones so I thought maybe identifying as a libertarian would be the answer. I suppose it did help because it weaned me off of needing the approval of being aligned with one party or the other. But when Trump was nominated in 2016, I made a hard break as I saw people I thought were sincere in their Christian faith not only deny everything they once purported to believe, and also seemingly most of their intellectual faculties and ability to rationally defend their decisions, but also I saw them devolve into fragile schoolyard bullies in the image of Trump.
Even as I relate thoroughly with everything Adam said, I still feel disoriented by the tragic shift that has wreaked havoc on real relationships in every sphere of life.
I agree completely with you! I could have written this as it fits my life (except my dad wasn’t a pastor). Also, I wasn’t the one using the A Beka curriculum. It was my daughter as we put her in Christian school from K5-12. With the advent of Trump and MAGA we have left the Republican party. We voted for Joe Biden and am happily voting for Kamala Harris all because of what you stated and what Adam Kinzinger stated. Democracy is at stake!
Thanks for sharing your background. I am very disheartened this time around. I’m sad for our country and both parties… it’s literally depressing and I’m hoping things will get better and we can find common ground after the election. It’s gotten to the point that I’ve really cut back on news and focus on reading, exercise, family etc.. but that’s really what matters, isn’t it?
Such an important comment to hear. Thank you for sharing your story
Loved this!
What a great interview! I love Adam and his integrity! Thank you for sharing with us, Sharon.
I say this with respect to all: The reality is we only have two parties right now, one of which will win the election. If your choice is between tearing down the principles America was built on or maintaining some semblance of democracy, even if some views don't align with yours, why would you write in someone who will not win? If it's a single issue you just can't bear to vote for, perhaps viewing each party as a whole and what they ultimately wish to accomplish would help? We never get everything we want. Never. But we can get close, and we can hope to live with less anger, vitriol and hate. I'd say most of us are just tired of that. Exhausted. The idea of living through another 4 years of tearing down America, calling it a hellhole, pitting us against one another, villainizing non-whites, women and the government, etc., is a place I'm tired of revisiting. Adam Kinzinger is a good example of how even when you don't always align on every topic, some choices are just better on the whole.
The other part that I try to remind people of is, the President does not get to just change and write new laws! That is the job of our Congress… even if Harris wins, the democrats will likely not have control or the house and senate, but perhaps we can start to move back to bipartisan committees that accomplish goals through true compromise, not just refusing to deal because DJT wants to tank our country for his own ego
Amen! Totally agree.
Beautifully said, Sherry!
Thank you for your kind words
These party realignments are objectively fascinating, especially as someone from the South. I appreciate this interview and the courage to put it out there. Sharon-you’re going to get hate and threats for this, which means you’re doing something right.
Thank you for this ❤️
Great interview with a guy who shows real courage and integrity. I’ve heard people profess their dissatisfaction with both parties and their inability to vote for either candidate. They retreat from the difficult issues of the day to safe spaces of family and personal well-being and ask isn’t that what really matters. My answer is no, it’s not what really matters, not in this election especially. I’m an upper middle class, native-born, post-menopausal white woman. Even if Trump is re-elected and democracy falls in tatters all around us I and my family will probably be fine (physically and financially if not emotionally). But I am not voting for myself. I am voting to prevent the large-scale hunting down and rounding up of immigrants and asylum seekers, the tearing apart of families and using the U.S. military to place millions of people in detention camps and for the rights and freedoms of American women much younger than me, among many other things. I am not sad at all about the Democratic Party and its focus on freedom and moving forward into a better future. The choice this time could not be clearer and I completely agree with Kinzinger that everything else pales in comparison to a failed democracy.
“But I am not voting for myself.” Exactly this. Those of us born with privilege (of race) can choose to sit an election out, regardless of the outcome it is unlikely to bring immediate harm to our door. But democracy, freedom, safety, fairness - that’s very much on the ballot again for many. We may not have ideal options on the ballot, but we can use our vote to stand up for our neighbors: that’s compassion and humanity in action. Let’s build that bigger tent Sharon spoke about here - you may not love all the food being served in the tent, and that’s ok.
I could not agree more! My life will not nearly be as impacted as the least among us! We must do more to protect them !
THIS!
💯 every single word of this - it’s like you heard me saying it out loud in my kitchen. You are voting for more than yourself and we have many examples where it was clear looking back which was the right side of history. This one is even easier - look back four years and project forward four years - there is one easy choice to make which allows all other choices and options possible. I for one will choose hope - hope that we keep our democracy and enact many of the ideas Sharon has previously shared as changes we need to make to govern ourselves better. We are living history right now - choose hope!
Yes!! This is exactly how I feel!
I have an acute awareness that we are living in the History lessons our grandchildren will study. While fascinating academically, on a personal level, what the MAGA movement has done to the church and Republican Party has probably been the greatest heartbreak of my entire life. I hope to live to see the redemption arch.
What a beautiful comment!
My two favorite north stars in one spot! As a religious “conservative,” I agree wholeheartedly with everything Adam said about Donald Trump. President Trump is not truly a person of faith and he doesn’t actually care about the sanctity of life. He is just a conman who has tricked half of the country into believing that he cares.
Also, Sharon, I would hate to be the one starting a conspiracy theory but are you sure there is only one of you and you haven’t been cloned into many Sharons? One doing book tours, one doing podcasts, one writing Substack posts, one sitting down for in-depth interviews with prominent figures of the day, one taking care of the dogs and the home front, etc., etc.? Good thing that childhood paper route in Duluth prepared you for hard work and long hours!
😂😂😂😂 I wish I had some kind of Hermione Granger time traveling spell!!
Kate, I have thought the same thing. I don’t know how she fits ALL of it in and gets the sleep she needs. I admire you, Sharon, because I don’t get everything done in a day that I need to do. 😊
Loved the interview!! And I love the concept of building a bigger tent.
I wish democrats talked more about their efforts and successes in reducing abortion rates. From 2009-2021, 70% of the decline in abortion rates were driven by states with the least abortion restrictions. And we know that maternal and infant mortality rates are higher in states with abortion bans. Bans cause harm & result in maternity care deserts (providers are fearful to work in states that send them to jail for practicing medicine). Attacks on reproductive rights also impact those of us who need fertility treatments such as IVF.
Two things can be true at once: you can advocate for reproductive rights AND work to reduce abortion rates. The policies that are effective in reducing abortion rates (access to birth control, affordable healthcare, comprehensive sex ed, paid family leave, etc) are sadly often rejected by the GOP.
This!! Democrats have a huge messaging problem.
Agreed! It’s about bodily autonomy -and- discussing how their policies are successful in reducing abortion rates. If someone genuinely wants to reduce abortion rates, they would vote for the candidates enacting evidence based policies proven to work. One of the things I am learning, though, is that many in the pro-life camp believe this is as a “moral” issue and refuse to see the data because they are absolutely convinced the fetus is a full, legal person (despite the fact that their biblical text says nothing about fetal personhood; nor does Jesus ever say His followers should legalize their version of morality). I say this as a deconstructing Christian who hasn’t abandoned faith but rather a poor theology. I have the utmost respect for potential life in the womb and even risked my own life to carry our son in a high risk pregnancy; I sadly suffered a hemorrhage in the second trimester and am still here because abortions are life saving healthcare. It was my choice to carry, and I would never, ever want to legally force someone to make that decision.
One of David French’s favorite talking points!
This interview was incredible! I can't wait to read it again. I grew up driving to high school with Rush Limbaugh on the radio, and I attended college at a conservative evangelical university that championed the pro-life movement without apology, flags waving high.
Now in my 30s, my shift to becoming "politically moderate" has been unnerving to many friends and family members. I process politics with compassion and empathy. I can't set those values down. I can't blindly vote on party. I can't stop asking hard questions on BOTH sides of the aisle.
So it's incredibly hard for me to invoke these values into political conversation only to be met with, "Well, you must love abortion!" What?
Sharon and Adam, your deep dives into Christian nationalism have truly been eye-opening for me, and I'm so grateful.
I agreed with a lot of what Adam said and I do agree that Trump has pushed some people out of the church. As someone who grew up in the church, in my high school era spending close to 30 hours a week there, I no longer feel welcomed at church. I've tried to go back several times, but the sermons and the viewpoints are not those which I believe that Jesus would have supported. It's sad to see and it's tough to explain that to people who have shifted with the church. I considered myself a Republican until Trump, but never had thought of the "other side" as "evil". I couldn't, and still can't, stomach voting for Trump, who does not exemplify what the Christian Nationalist party is wanting to believe he stands for.
Amanda, as a Christian, it truly saddens my heart that you no longer feel like you have a place at church. Church should be a place that welcomes all people and a place of refuge. I hope that you are able to find a church that only preaches Jesus as king and the Kingdom of Heaven as the ultimate place to have citizenship.
I still am a believer, but I got tired of hearing underhanded jokes about how a baby shouldn't get "confused later in life because" the little girl was "standing in for a boy" and politics from the pulpit. Also got tired of being told that the Christian woman was quiet and a helper and not someone who makes waves. I'm sure there's a church out there somewhere that I could fit into, but it's harder to do when you live in a deep red area.
I live in a deeply red state and that has become a very real barrier to finding a faith community that doesn’t feel gross because so many of them seem to be infected with the MAGA agenda instead of being transformed by the teachings of Jesus. I have been a Christian my whole life, but walked away from church for long seasons in my adulthood until a few years ago when I found an Episcopal church—it has been a breath of fresh air for my soul. It is similar to an ELCA Lutheran church theologically. Not sure what is available where you live. I hope someday you can have a faith space that is right for you.
I totally get that! If you happen to live in the DFW metroplex area in Texas, I am happy to share several names of churches that 1) don't preach any of those things you listed from the pulpit and 2) don't facilitate those sentiments in general by the congregation. Unfortunately, I don't have experience with churches outside of this area of the country, so if you live somewhere else, the only help I have is support for your feelings, empathy and prayers that you are able to find community soon.
Amanda, I feel the same as you. I am a believer in Jesus but don’t have a church home anymore either. 😢
I agree! I have visited other churches, but I have to drive about an hour away to a more "blue" area to find churches that align with my values. It makes it hard to participate and become involved in the church community when I live farther away.
Amanda, I forgot to say I live in the deep red state of SC.
I credit Donald Trump, and the evangelical embrace of him, for my deconstruction era, and a product of that has been my political interest.
I’ve definitely wondered if we’re seeing a party shift that’s going to be more permanent. Being new to liberal side of things, I can’t speak to a more conservative Democrat party, but I’ve definitely seen the shift of the Republican party.
It’s a thought provoking idea that they aren’t conservative because of the radical desire for change, but I also don’t see it as progressive or liberal, because they want something back that we used to have. What is it?
Nikkie, you ask, …”they want something back that we used to have. What is it?”
They want many things that used to be acceptable, but are no longer. Here are just two of them:
1. Open racism
2. White supremacy
Can you provide some specific examples of exactly when people have expressed that they want open racism and white supremacy?
It's certainly not an explicit party platform. But why was Nick Fuentes, white supremacist, invited to dine with Trump at Mar-a-Lago? Why has Laura Loomer, open racist and white supremacist, been advising the Trump campaign and appearing publicly with a candidate for President?
Why would people with those views feel welcome in Trump's Republicanism?
Eliminating DEI and affirmative action.
Birtherism and questioning the identity of a bi-racial candidate.
“They are eating the dogs!”
Mass deportation
The problem with answering this question is that smart racists are careful to NOT say it openly. (See Tucker Carlson and the great replacement conspiracy theory.) They use coded language and dog whistles. https://www.npr.org/2023/04/25/1171800317/how-tucker-carlsons-extremist-narratives-shaped-fox-news-and-conservative-politi
I credit it with my deconstruction too. I tried to ignore it until Covid rolled around and my science nurse brain was like, wait, what? Then I saw all the hypocrisy surrounding the white conservative evangelicals and let’s just say it’s been a journey. I’m still mad and likely voting out of anger for more liberal ideas. But at least it’s not out of ignorance.
That was a great conversation, and it's very encouraging to hear Republicans who don't support Trump explaining exactly what is at stake... and that's everything. Our whole country. I hope people need this message.
Thanks for sharing. I believe the opposite- that so much is at stake if Harris wins. Specifically freedom of speech. I don’t think that Harris will independently risk that, but Walz and other democrats can influence it.
I haven't seen any indication of that at all, so I'm curious where you heard information that would lead you to believe that.
Hillary Clinton’s recent comments about criminal charges for people who spread propaganda and Tim Walz comments on freedom of speech. Very concerning to me.
For context's sake, Clinton was speaking very specifically about people being paid by foreign countries to spread misinformation (like the recent case with Tenet Media): https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2024/09/16/hillary_clinton_americans_engaged_in_propaganda_should_be_criminally_charged_would_be_a_better_deterrence.html
As for Walz, the quote is from 2022 and also specifically had to do with voter intimidation: https://reason.com/volokh/2024/08/08/vp-candidate-tim-walz-on-theres-no-guarantee-to-free-speech-on-misinformation-or-hate-speech-and-especially-around-our-democracy/ (this source has an excellent legal breakdown on where Walz is and is not wrong)
Disagree with those opinions or not, it's about as misleading to suggest that a Harris/Walz administration would criminalize free speech as it would be to suggest that a Trump/Vance administration would enact The Purge (based on his recent comments).
Thanks for sharing, Emily. I forgot to mention there was also the White House pressuring Meta to censor Covid information. So sorry- don’t trust many democrats will protect freedom of speech.
And Trump threatened to “strongly regulate, or close them down” (‘them’ = social media companies) when he was fact-checked by Twitter on his election lies. I think we can definitely agree that government pressure on free speech - from either direction - is not a good impulse and should always be checked.
Adam Kinzinger's Substack is my other paid subscription on here. He's the type of Republican I grew up with, the kind I can absolutely enjoy a political debate with. If the political world ever gets back to normal, I will probably continue to follow him. And, honestly, I look forward to understanding his political views outside the existential threat of MAGA.
Me too! I'm looking forward to a better understanding of his Republican party.
This was a wonderful conversation! I appreciate that Adam didn’t speak about the Catholic Church and if white nationalism has seeped in since he doesn’t have knowledge of it. But as a Catholic, I can share that it has made it in the American Catholic church as well. It’s not everywhere and if you’re lucky, you don’t feel it in your parish, but I have noticed it as an online Catholic. It’s made me unfollow a lot of Catholics on social media for that reason. This interview was quite heartening and I hope more conservatives have this kind of sense in their conscience.
YAY!!! Adam Kinzinger is an American hero!!! ❤️
I think it's amazing that Adam Kinzinger cannot only see clearly what is happening to this party, but he is willing to speak out against it. As a lifelong Democrat, I hope that if someone similar to Trump would come along and try to take over the party, I would be able to see through that. It's so frustrating to see so many conservative people support someone who really is the opposite of the things they said they believed in.
I used to call myself a Yella Dog democrat, but now I hope and trust that I can gracefully leave my “party” when it takes a serious wrong turn! I admire kinziger so much!