Preemptive pardons set an entirely new precedent. Something that has been harshly criticized by both sides, including Biden himself. If "poor Dr. Fauci" did nothing wrong, then "revenge politics" would be a dead end. I also push back on revenge politics being "Trump's favorite kind" as what examples can you even point to that he has done…
Preemptive pardons set an entirely new precedent. Something that has been harshly criticized by both sides, including Biden himself. If "poor Dr. Fauci" did nothing wrong, then "revenge politics" would be a dead end. I also push back on revenge politics being "Trump's favorite kind" as what examples can you even point to that he has done this? What comes to my mind is Hillary Clinton and "lock her up" only to be never spoken of again after Trump was elected.
Trump should not have pardoned all January 6th rioters. Violence against law enforcement is never okay. However, some of these pardons make sense. A majority of the charges were misdemeanors including trespassing and property crimes. A lot of these people had no prior record. I would argue this could be seen as revenge politics as similar charges would've likely been dropped in most liberal cities with progressive DAs. These jury trials also took place in Washington, DC where 93% of residents voted for Joe Biden in 2020. Have these defendants received fair trials by juries of their peers?
January 6th was incredibly ugly. I wish it had never happened. I also feel like January 6th has become an obsession for the left. Pardoning "a boatload of violent criminals" is certainly an exaggeration. While some of these pardons are unacceptable, others are reasonable. This goes for Biden and Trump alike.
You claim that J6 is an obsession for the left, but I’d argue it’s because the left is being gaslit to not believe their own eyes after having watched a violent movement to stop our free and fair election. These people didn’t just break a few windows - they did it in pursuit of halting democracy. You claim it was horrible while simultaneously downplaying it. You can’t have it both ways.
Relentless coverage of January 6th for the past four years is gaslighting?
I can acknowledge January 6th was ugly while also seeing it for what it was. It was not a planned coup or armed insurrection. It was not comparable to Pearl Harbor or 9/11. All of these claims I've heard from the left. The election was delayed but ultimately certified within a few hours. It should not have happened. It also has been exploited and exaggerated. All of these things can be true at once.
I know these comments are not going to be welcome by Sharon's readers, but the reality is my opinion is shared by tens of millions of Americans including independens. Maybe the left needs to focus on policy and move on from the hyperfixation of January 6th.
I guess I’d invite you to revisit the feelings you had about J6 the day after it happened compared to now. There was a brief window where we all agreed about the scope of it, even Trump’s most staunch supporters. Something happened a week or two later where they all began to bow the knee to Trump’s narrative, but that brief window… it was really something.
I disagree that there has been a hyper fixation on J6. It was a dreadful day for our nation, and should never be forgotten. I hope that my children learn about it in their history books. Additionally, it might be easier to move forward if the current President would actually concede that he lost the 2020 election.
It took 14 hours to certify the election in 2020, compared to 2 hours in 2024 (I believe - may not be 100% correct on this. Can’t find my source but will keep looking).
I don’t care if my comments are “well-received” or not. I care about the truth.
The attempted insurrection was the equivalent to Guy Fawkes trying to overthrow England. The UK still celebrates that failure with annual fireworks. We should be celebrating the heroic actions of the Capital police instead of arguing about criminals. Thanks to Trump we don’t. He spins the plates to keep us from focusing on how to advance our society. We are in retrograde. Let’s hope we survive this cycle.
The only thing worse than participating in an attempted insurrection against our country, is treason. The logic that some were “harmless” crimes is like saying the getaway driver wasn’t really participating in the burglary. That’s BS. Trump has a LONG history of revenge moves and if you don’t think he’d go after Dr. Fauci and the January 6th committee, then you really haven’t been paying attention.
Your suggestion that Biden has used the DOJ to go after political enemies carries an implication that you do not believe Trump committed the crimes he's been accused of. But he had the classified documents and refused to give them up. He was convicted in the Stormy Daniels case. Do you believe we should never prosecute an ex-president by nature of their past position? Or do you believe no one is above the law?
In my opinion, the charges against Trump were specious, politically motivated, and violated norms. Without getting into the weeds of each case, I believe charges were only brought against Trump because he was seeking reelection. Should ex-presidents be above the law? You may not like my answer, but I guess it depends on the crimes. I do not want any president of any party to weaponize the DOJ. I believe Biden did this, and I have not seen this from Trump. If I am wrong and Trump does this in the future, I will be his loudest critic.
Interesting. I'd argue that, had Trump not been running for re-election, the cases against him would have been charged MORE aggressively. But that's just speculation.
I'm generally of the opinion that Trump committed crimes and deserves to be prosecuted for those crimes. Refusing to return classified documents, using his political office to try to sway state elections, and paying someone off to keep their story from influencing an election all seem worthy of prosecution to me. But I get that we live in a world where we don't all agree on the magnitude of those crimes.
I genuinely hope Trump won't weaponize the DOJ, but he's repeatedly indicated he will, and I tend to believe him.
On the other hand, you have this piece, which says Biden wouldn't stand in the way of the DOJ but that Harris said she would direct her administration to pursue charges against Trump:
Summer, you don't seem capable of criticizing your own party. You jump to defend Biden with every comment. You then make snide remarks to anyone who does not share your beliefs.
Let me come back one more time Kayla and others to say - if I came off as disrespectful or rude, I apologize. It’s really difficult to be productive in these conversations (on all sides) but I can see that many of you are making an effort. I will as well.
I’m not defending Biden. I don’t need to because I’m not invested in his rightness. Please tell me what you mean by snide remarks? I’ve been nothing but straightforward on here as far as I know. What I am interested in defending are the facts and a sense of morality and justice unconstrained by partisan politics.
" Please show me where he pardoned child killers and child abusers. I must’ve missed it."
These do not come across as someone who is interested in having good faith conversations. I also find it highly unlikely your read the entire clemency list of over 8,000 individuals, but I could be wrong.
He has removed secret service protection for Bolton, Pompeo & Fauci; all of whom have had credible threats against them. He is threatening to withhold aid for the CA wildfires unless there is an agreement to lift the debt limit. IMO - DJT revenge politics is his playbook.
Preemptive pardons set an entirely new precedent. Something that has been harshly criticized by both sides, including Biden himself. If "poor Dr. Fauci" did nothing wrong, then "revenge politics" would be a dead end. I also push back on revenge politics being "Trump's favorite kind" as what examples can you even point to that he has done this? What comes to my mind is Hillary Clinton and "lock her up" only to be never spoken of again after Trump was elected.
Trump should not have pardoned all January 6th rioters. Violence against law enforcement is never okay. However, some of these pardons make sense. A majority of the charges were misdemeanors including trespassing and property crimes. A lot of these people had no prior record. I would argue this could be seen as revenge politics as similar charges would've likely been dropped in most liberal cities with progressive DAs. These jury trials also took place in Washington, DC where 93% of residents voted for Joe Biden in 2020. Have these defendants received fair trials by juries of their peers?
January 6th was incredibly ugly. I wish it had never happened. I also feel like January 6th has become an obsession for the left. Pardoning "a boatload of violent criminals" is certainly an exaggeration. While some of these pardons are unacceptable, others are reasonable. This goes for Biden and Trump alike.
You claim that J6 is an obsession for the left, but I’d argue it’s because the left is being gaslit to not believe their own eyes after having watched a violent movement to stop our free and fair election. These people didn’t just break a few windows - they did it in pursuit of halting democracy. You claim it was horrible while simultaneously downplaying it. You can’t have it both ways.
Relentless coverage of January 6th for the past four years is gaslighting?
I can acknowledge January 6th was ugly while also seeing it for what it was. It was not a planned coup or armed insurrection. It was not comparable to Pearl Harbor or 9/11. All of these claims I've heard from the left. The election was delayed but ultimately certified within a few hours. It should not have happened. It also has been exploited and exaggerated. All of these things can be true at once.
I know these comments are not going to be welcome by Sharon's readers, but the reality is my opinion is shared by tens of millions of Americans including independens. Maybe the left needs to focus on policy and move on from the hyperfixation of January 6th.
I guess I’d invite you to revisit the feelings you had about J6 the day after it happened compared to now. There was a brief window where we all agreed about the scope of it, even Trump’s most staunch supporters. Something happened a week or two later where they all began to bow the knee to Trump’s narrative, but that brief window… it was really something.
I disagree that there has been a hyper fixation on J6. It was a dreadful day for our nation, and should never be forgotten. I hope that my children learn about it in their history books. Additionally, it might be easier to move forward if the current President would actually concede that he lost the 2020 election.
J6 was an attempted coup:
https://www.cato.org/commentary/yes-it-was-attempted-coup
It took 14 hours to certify the election in 2020, compared to 2 hours in 2024 (I believe - may not be 100% correct on this. Can’t find my source but will keep looking).
I don’t care if my comments are “well-received” or not. I care about the truth.
The attempted insurrection was the equivalent to Guy Fawkes trying to overthrow England. The UK still celebrates that failure with annual fireworks. We should be celebrating the heroic actions of the Capital police instead of arguing about criminals. Thanks to Trump we don’t. He spins the plates to keep us from focusing on how to advance our society. We are in retrograde. Let’s hope we survive this cycle.
Complete agree Kayla. Thank you for sharing your thoughts that won’t be well received with majority of this audience.
The only thing worse than participating in an attempted insurrection against our country, is treason. The logic that some were “harmless” crimes is like saying the getaway driver wasn’t really participating in the burglary. That’s BS. Trump has a LONG history of revenge moves and if you don’t think he’d go after Dr. Fauci and the January 6th committee, then you really haven’t been paying attention.
Trump's own record suggests otherwise. Trump has not weaponized the DOJ to go after his political enemies. Biden on the other hand...
Your suggestion that Biden has used the DOJ to go after political enemies carries an implication that you do not believe Trump committed the crimes he's been accused of. But he had the classified documents and refused to give them up. He was convicted in the Stormy Daniels case. Do you believe we should never prosecute an ex-president by nature of their past position? Or do you believe no one is above the law?
In my opinion, the charges against Trump were specious, politically motivated, and violated norms. Without getting into the weeds of each case, I believe charges were only brought against Trump because he was seeking reelection. Should ex-presidents be above the law? You may not like my answer, but I guess it depends on the crimes. I do not want any president of any party to weaponize the DOJ. I believe Biden did this, and I have not seen this from Trump. If I am wrong and Trump does this in the future, I will be his loudest critic.
Interesting. I'd argue that, had Trump not been running for re-election, the cases against him would have been charged MORE aggressively. But that's just speculation.
I'm generally of the opinion that Trump committed crimes and deserves to be prosecuted for those crimes. Refusing to return classified documents, using his political office to try to sway state elections, and paying someone off to keep their story from influencing an election all seem worthy of prosecution to me. But I get that we live in a world where we don't all agree on the magnitude of those crimes.
I genuinely hope Trump won't weaponize the DOJ, but he's repeatedly indicated he will, and I tend to believe him.
I am sincerely asking this question…
Was it Biden who requested that Trump be charged? Or was it the DOJ? Because they’re supposed to be separate arms of the government.
I don't know if we'll ever know conclusively, to be honest.
On the one hand, you have this article, which TL, DR says the two are separate and Biden didn't have the authority:
https://www.newsweek.com/did-joe-biden-indict-donald-trump-jan-6-1817193
(August 2023)
On the other hand, you have this piece, which says Biden wouldn't stand in the way of the DOJ but that Harris said she would direct her administration to pursue charges against Trump:
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/06/899375561/biden-says-he-wouldnt-stand-in-the-way-of-a-trump-prosecution
(August 2020)
Regardless, I think this is an enduring sentiment now:
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/biden-doj-crossed-political-rubicon-with-trump-indictment
(June 2023)
Yes, Kayla! Very well stated!!
You can’t be serious.
Summer, you don't seem capable of criticizing your own party. You jump to defend Biden with every comment. You then make snide remarks to anyone who does not share your beliefs.
Let me come back one more time Kayla and others to say - if I came off as disrespectful or rude, I apologize. It’s really difficult to be productive in these conversations (on all sides) but I can see that many of you are making an effort. I will as well.
I’m not a member of the Democratic Party, and I think there’s plenty they get quite wrong. I’m an open book if you want to ask me about it.
I’m not defending Biden. I don’t need to because I’m not invested in his rightness. Please tell me what you mean by snide remarks? I’ve been nothing but straightforward on here as far as I know. What I am interested in defending are the facts and a sense of morality and justice unconstrained by partisan politics.
"You can't be serious."
"Prove it."
"Oh, did you read the first article you posted?"
" Please show me where he pardoned child killers and child abusers. I must’ve missed it."
These do not come across as someone who is interested in having good faith conversations. I also find it highly unlikely your read the entire clemency list of over 8,000 individuals, but I could be wrong.
Yes, you’re right. I read the pardons. My bad.
I said all of those things in complete seriousness. But I can understand how it might sound snarky on the internet. Very hard to translate tone.
Agree Kayla! I would also be interested in examples of revenge politics Trump has used.
He has removed secret service protection for Bolton, Pompeo & Fauci; all of whom have had credible threats against them. He is threatening to withhold aid for the CA wildfires unless there is an agreement to lift the debt limit. IMO - DJT revenge politics is his playbook.
Do you know of any examples of Trump weaponizing the DOJ?
Here’s an article describing a number of times he tried to weaponize DOJ. He might not have been successful, but not for lack of trying.
We will see what happens with a more malleable DOJ.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/05/politics/january-6-timeline-trump-coup/index.html
Thank you for finding that and sharing it. I would love if Sharon would do a deep dive on how current and former Presidents have weaponized the DOJ.
I can see how that looks like revenge politics.