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Kate Stone's avatar

This is just laughable to me. We already lose hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue every year because taxpayers, mostly high earners, don’t pay the taxes they owe, in large part because the Republican Party has tried to shrink and strangle the IRS for decades. People whine about deficits while simultaneously wrecking the government agency that brings in the vast majority of government revenue. Who cares if Republicans are even considering a return to slightly higher tax rates for the people at the top when Republicans are determined to cut the IRS workforce in half and take away Biden Admin. funds earmarked for modernization? This effort in itself is estimated to cost us trillions in lost revenue over the next decade, both from the high earners who already weren’t paying or even filing and all of the people who will now join them since there will be even less fear of enforcement from the IRS. This so-called “debate” among Republicans about tax rates on high earners is a bunch of sound and fury signifying nothing of practical effect. It’s just a pathetic fig leaf for their plans to gut Medicaid, SNAP and other programs so they can extend Trump’s tax cuts.

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Timothy Patrick's avatar

When Trump says economic pain is like "maybe the children will have two dolls instead of 30 dolls, you know?" what he should be saying is "maybe billionaires will have 12 mansions instead of 15, and still have more wealth than they could spend in ten lifetimes, you know?" But somehow he was elected twice.

It shouldn’t be about asking children to sacrifice their toys before asking people with obscene wealth to contribute meaningfully to the society that enabled their success in the first place.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this whole tax situation. Yes, Democrats' base has increasingly been wealthier and more educated compared to Republicans sliding in the opposite direction on both axes. But I think the partisan divide isn't so much about income per se - it's about trust in the government to responsibly use those funds in taxpayers' interest.

How about this for a Rorschach test: Some people fall for outlandish unproven accusations from Elon Musk and his DOGE about fraud and waste because the claims fit their bias, while others see DOGE as simply a conservative power grab because Musk can't and won't show receipts for his work. The deficit isn't just about spending, which is very difficult to change, but about revenue, which is just a matter of getting the ultra wealthy to pay their fair share. DOGE has gutted the government’s ability to seek revenue specifically from the wealthiest Americans. This has driven Progressive Democrats crazy, that working class people have seemingly shrugged about a tax revenue structure that benefits them. That's Bernie's entire thing.

As many people have said whenever the topic of DOGE comes up, but it’s worth repeating: fraud and waste exist. We all want to minimize it as much as possible. But not at the expense of honest people who rely on the government services they pay for.

I want to give working class Trump voters the benefit of the doubt, I really do. But it makes you wonder - if they sign up for peanuts from Trump while he gives out meaningful benefits to the ultra wealthy, meanwhile Bernie's singleminded focus on helping the working class didn't resonate..is it just because of social issues? Does that suggest that denying rights for people who are perceived as "other" has more political power than putting more money in your own bank account?

I just want people to be sane about this. The system is so broken. People who can't afford more should get a tax break. People who can afford more should get a tax increase.

Regardless of political background, we should all support: progressive taxation based on ability to pay; closing tax loopholes that only benefit the ultra-wealthy; protecting and strengthening social safety nets; ensuring corporations pay their fair share; and prioritizing economic policies that benefit the majority rather than just the top 1%. If we could all agree on these basic principles, maybe we could start rebuilding a functional government that works for everyone, not just those with enough money to buy influence.

Tangent: here's my personal story about income tax this year. Let's discuss the concept of tax brackets. I understand how progressive taxation works - only the additional dollars earned above each threshold get taxed at the higher rate, not your entire income. But even with this understanding, these arbitrary thresholds still create strange incentives and outcomes. What's wrong with a smooth graph that gradually increases the percentage without these stark dividing lines?

Historically, the U.S. adopted the bracketed system in 1913 with the 16th Amendment, starting with just seven brackets. Over time, the number of brackets has fluctuated dramatically - from a high of 56 brackets in 1918 to as few as two in the late 1980s. The original rationale was simplicity in calculation before computers, but many economists have advocated for a continuous tax function that would eliminate these arbitrary thresholds. Countries like Germany already use formulas rather than strict brackets to calculate income tax, which creates a smoother progression.

I have worked for the same project for 12 years, but that project has changed corporate ownership 3 times, meaning I have had 4 different employers (and 8 different work emails!), ranging from scrappy to now super corporate. Becoming more corporate had trade offs for the first 3 employers: added benefits but also restrictions on things like raises. But this last acquisition that came in August 2024 recategorized my role in a complicated way - I'm still technically a full-time employee, but I'm now excluded from all the benefits that people in other roles at the company enjoy, only because the technicality that my year-round full-time position is specific to a project. Nothing about my job requirement changed, but my benefits were converted to cash, meaning I got a pay raise that compensated me for the market value of the benefits I would no longer have.

Several meetings with HR later, when I made my case that this was effectively a pay cut because my additional income pushed me into a higher tax bracket and took away the tax advantages of the benefits I lost, I was told there was no negotiation, I could take the offer or resign. Being that everyone else I know in the entertainment industry has faced horrible options finding work for the past 2 years, my options were to go along with it or be unemployed for many months at least. Sure enough, even though this new arrangement was only for August through December out of the year, I was able to calculate that instead of what most people would expect would be standing still (a modest 3ish percent raise to keep up with cost of living) I was handed an 11% pay cut in terms of what actually stays in my bank account. That's because not only do I report more money as income than when that income came in the form of benefits, but that additional income gets taxed at a significantly higher rate than my base salary was.

Even despite this personal pain, I realize that I am fortunate and healthy enough that I should be contributing more, while folks with mouths to feed and debts that weren't their fault are hurting. I think we all need to look beyond our immediate self-interest to what builds a better society for everyone. Let’s not forget there are selfish reasons to want the best for everyone, too. But that would require a lot of change in the way we raise our children to think about government and taxes.

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