Thank you. Such an enlightening article. We recently moved to another state and found our pastor hadn’t updated his operating system since before Vatican II. We found a progressive parish nearby. Our pastor marches in pro-immigrant rallies. It’s refreshing. If these “right” pastors, influencers and leaders followed Jesus’ true words, they’d be advocating for immigrants, women and those on the economic margins. Follow those corporal works of mercy straight to heaven.
Of course many men are flocking to a group that showers them with praise and tells them they're superior by default. Rather than accomplish anything that makes them actual leaders, they get to believe they are leaders simply for being born. Lazy.
I really appreciate this article. I think it's true that white young men are looking for identity - I know I have been looking since high school. And I think rooted religious traditions can be a healthy place to find connection and meaning, but the amount of grievance and anger that is connected with this movement is concerning, to say the least. I mean, we've had lots of violence and woman-hating in the Church over the centuries, and it has never served us well.
Growing up Catholic, I have always found a connection to this stream of the Church. There are loads of good and healthy things to be found (eg. mercy, humility, preferential treatment for the poor). I hope these young men find the Gospel in their search for meaning.
Maybe those turning to Catholicism will listen to the Pope! He's one of the best voices for human values, that is, valuing all humans. Being conservative is not bad. It's MAGA that's turned it to an evil cabal, but they are not the same.
As a Catholic, it disturbs me to see Catholics who are more than okay with deport them all and think people should go hungry. It is not what Jesus taught or what our church stands for.
The fact that some of the worst in the manosphere have perverted Catholism is terrifying to me. In my church, we largely have female Eucharistic Ministers, readers, altar servers, cantors—-without the women the basic functions of the Mass wouldn’t get done.
Me too. But otherwise a very informative and chilling article that confirms what I have witnessed and mourned about the American Catholic Church since the 80's. As a once Vatican II Catholic and John 23rd fan, I am bemused by the growing conservatism in light of the current and previous pope's social justice focus. The papacy, though not the Curia, seems blatantly out of step with American Catholic trends.
I first read this article on Friday, and I have been stewing about it ever since. I have tried to organize my thought in a coherent way, but alas, this is the best I've got.
First of all, this headline rang click-baity to me. Charlie Kirk was not Catholic. The manosphere, while it contains Catholic influencers, is not composed solely of such. As with any church, or any organization, the Catholic church is full of sinners. There are things in Church history that are shameful, right up to the present day. And yet, we are also the Church of Mother Teresa, Archbishop Oscar Romero, and Pope Francis.
I was also frusturated by the heavy reliance in this article on phrases like "many argue" and "some say". Who are these anonymous people? And the statistic about priests ordained since 2020 being "orthodox" or "conservative"? That rings disingenuous, too, because those two terms do not mean the same thing. I am politically liberal (pro-immigrant, pro-social services, and more) but religiously orthodox, meaning I believe in the teachings of the Catholic church as outlined in the Nicene Creed. To lump these two together is unhelpful.
Anyway, I just watched Wake Up Dead Man, and would highly recommend. We are the Church of Monsignor Wickses and Father Judds both. Please don't paint all Catholics with such a broad brush. There are 2 million of us around the world, and a lot of room for diversity. This is not what I expected to read in the Preamble, founded by the queen of facts and nuance, Sharon McMahon.
In the paragraph on the state of American men survey, I believe there is a typo . “Men said they trusted Andrew Tate…26 criminal charges…more than President Biden” I’m not aware of President Biden having been accused of such crimes.
Yes, this should have been rephrased. Something like: When asked who young men trusted more, Andrew Tate or President Biden, more said Tate. Tate has 26 criminal charges (including…)
Although I am not currently a member of any one particular denomination of churches, I do consider myself part of the Body of Christ that resides in the hearts of all believers around the world today , God does not reside in temples built with human hands ,but ,rather in the heart . With that thought in mind , I respond to this article about the young men of today who are being subjected to the idea that they are not masculine enough to warrant a place in this current society and therefor must undergo some kind of writ of passage to become so. This is very sad to me as no one can be any more than who they are and should not have to proceed to try to become something that they are not to satisfy so called established social mores. The beauty of the LGTBQ movement has been that they are declaring how they were made and are not ashamed of it nor should anyone else be judging them as abnormal because of some age old myth that says that they are to be shunned. This is the 21 Century in which we need to progress into a better world for everyone and not regress into antiquated ideologies that are narrow and bigoted and only stand to stifle open and free expression as to one's personal identity.
Thank you. Such an enlightening article. We recently moved to another state and found our pastor hadn’t updated his operating system since before Vatican II. We found a progressive parish nearby. Our pastor marches in pro-immigrant rallies. It’s refreshing. If these “right” pastors, influencers and leaders followed Jesus’ true words, they’d be advocating for immigrants, women and those on the economic margins. Follow those corporal works of mercy straight to heaven.
Of course many men are flocking to a group that showers them with praise and tells them they're superior by default. Rather than accomplish anything that makes them actual leaders, they get to believe they are leaders simply for being born. Lazy.
I really appreciate this article. I think it's true that white young men are looking for identity - I know I have been looking since high school. And I think rooted religious traditions can be a healthy place to find connection and meaning, but the amount of grievance and anger that is connected with this movement is concerning, to say the least. I mean, we've had lots of violence and woman-hating in the Church over the centuries, and it has never served us well.
Growing up Catholic, I have always found a connection to this stream of the Church. There are loads of good and healthy things to be found (eg. mercy, humility, preferential treatment for the poor). I hope these young men find the Gospel in their search for meaning.
Maybe those turning to Catholicism will listen to the Pope! He's one of the best voices for human values, that is, valuing all humans. Being conservative is not bad. It's MAGA that's turned it to an evil cabal, but they are not the same.
As a Catholic, it disturbs me to see Catholics who are more than okay with deport them all and think people should go hungry. It is not what Jesus taught or what our church stands for.
The fact that some of the worst in the manosphere have perverted Catholism is terrifying to me. In my church, we largely have female Eucharistic Ministers, readers, altar servers, cantors—-without the women the basic functions of the Mass wouldn’t get done.
Me too. But otherwise a very informative and chilling article that confirms what I have witnessed and mourned about the American Catholic Church since the 80's. As a once Vatican II Catholic and John 23rd fan, I am bemused by the growing conservatism in light of the current and previous pope's social justice focus. The papacy, though not the Curia, seems blatantly out of step with American Catholic trends.
I first read this article on Friday, and I have been stewing about it ever since. I have tried to organize my thought in a coherent way, but alas, this is the best I've got.
First of all, this headline rang click-baity to me. Charlie Kirk was not Catholic. The manosphere, while it contains Catholic influencers, is not composed solely of such. As with any church, or any organization, the Catholic church is full of sinners. There are things in Church history that are shameful, right up to the present day. And yet, we are also the Church of Mother Teresa, Archbishop Oscar Romero, and Pope Francis.
I was also frusturated by the heavy reliance in this article on phrases like "many argue" and "some say". Who are these anonymous people? And the statistic about priests ordained since 2020 being "orthodox" or "conservative"? That rings disingenuous, too, because those two terms do not mean the same thing. I am politically liberal (pro-immigrant, pro-social services, and more) but religiously orthodox, meaning I believe in the teachings of the Catholic church as outlined in the Nicene Creed. To lump these two together is unhelpful.
Anyway, I just watched Wake Up Dead Man, and would highly recommend. We are the Church of Monsignor Wickses and Father Judds both. Please don't paint all Catholics with such a broad brush. There are 2 million of us around the world, and a lot of room for diversity. This is not what I expected to read in the Preamble, founded by the queen of facts and nuance, Sharon McMahon.
In the paragraph on the state of American men survey, I believe there is a typo . “Men said they trusted Andrew Tate…26 criminal charges…more than President Biden” I’m not aware of President Biden having been accused of such crimes.
It is meant that they trust Andrew Tate more than President Biden. The part about the charges is a sidebar about Tate.
That’s pretty scary to me.
Yes, this should have been rephrased. Something like: When asked who young men trusted more, Andrew Tate or President Biden, more said Tate. Tate has 26 criminal charges (including…)
It’s definitely a bit confusing as it’s written.
I found this confusing also.
The em dashes mean that the bit about convictions is extra info about Tate.
Interesting . Had to look up em dashes. They seem like hyphens .
The important message here is that young American men think it’s ok to assault women.
Although I am not currently a member of any one particular denomination of churches, I do consider myself part of the Body of Christ that resides in the hearts of all believers around the world today , God does not reside in temples built with human hands ,but ,rather in the heart . With that thought in mind , I respond to this article about the young men of today who are being subjected to the idea that they are not masculine enough to warrant a place in this current society and therefor must undergo some kind of writ of passage to become so. This is very sad to me as no one can be any more than who they are and should not have to proceed to try to become something that they are not to satisfy so called established social mores. The beauty of the LGTBQ movement has been that they are declaring how they were made and are not ashamed of it nor should anyone else be judging them as abnormal because of some age old myth that says that they are to be shunned. This is the 21 Century in which we need to progress into a better world for everyone and not regress into antiquated ideologies that are narrow and bigoted and only stand to stifle open and free expression as to one's personal identity.